I already provided you a link to one individual who was calling for a nationwide moratorium on the building of mosques. 

No.  That's simply incorrect. 

LOL Ok Dg.  Keep telling yourself that.  Sure they called him a coward and surrounded him and wanted to fight him, sure they surrounded him again to say "allah is a pig", sure----but it was 'peaceful'.  What planet do you live on? 

I remember why.  Because he was a racist...in the tea party which has no racists.  Right? 

All totally untrue.  Again the words of simple people. 

You didn't answer the question:  Do you feel that Vatican II was part of the liberal agenda?

Well that's why do don't want the mosque built, right?  Because you're afraid of the Sheria law? 

Look:  it's not a coincidence that the most dogmatic religious fundamentalists are amongst the poorest and least educated.  That's universal.  Look at countries where fundamentalists islam has taken over.  Look at the areas with high concentrations of fundamentalist christians.  Look at the inner cities where NOI does well.

These things aren't coincidental and it's not random.  

So if by elitism, you mean I ignore hayseeds and illiterates - fine.  As well I should.  I recommend you do the same as well. 

I'm not making any assumptions.  You've apologized for Christian violence but seem to hold up for Muslim violence. If you're going to beef with Muslim folks because they've killed people - you have to hold Christians to the same standard. You can't express a difference when they are, in fact, the same.  

So that is an affront to your freedom?  How?  Tell me how. 

Fascinating that you don't consider people making religious based laws a problem for freedom an issue. 

wow.  Just wow.  What an interesting conversation.  Wish I had seen this earlier. 

and this is well said.  When a Christian bombs an abortion clinic or protests at a funeral it's met with vehement disagreement from the mainline Christian community. Many Christian leaders speak out against it.   A true Christian follows Christ and he said himself we will be known by our love for our neighbor regardless of religious affiliation.  The Good Samaritan was only one of his many well known examples. 

When a Muslim bombs anything or kills anyone we hear nothing from the Muslim clerics.  There is no outrage.  They are following their leaders before them in the understanding that the general rule is that everyone living outside the Muslim faith is an infidel and worthy of death. 

What I find interesting and haven't seen mentioned here is the fact that Imam Rauf is spearheading this project in NY by traveling the Mideast on a State Dept mission as a symbol of American religious freedom.  Many believe he is using the taxpayer-funded trip to raise money and rally support in the Muslim world for this Mosque. 

Even Franklin Graham was quoted as saying;

"I think there is no place for this.  Can you imagine if the State Dept paid to send me on a trip anywhere?  The separation of church and state, the critics whould have been howling."

So I have to ask why is the separation of church and state only used for the Christians and not for the Muslims especially since this country was founded on Judeo-Christian values in the first place? 

I also heard on the radio this week there is talk about taking some of the Christian holidays off the school calendar and replacing them with Muslim ones because to just add Muslim holidays will only lengthen the school year. 

How long is it going to be before the Muslim population is the majority here?  In Europe they're saying by 2020 many of the European states will have a Muslim majority. 

Only then will the Christians not look so bad.  Sort of like George Bush saying today "do you miss me now?" 

When?

Read the part where I said "blocking traffic." People should be free to drive across town.  If they (and  protesters of any stripe, I'm not singling out gays here) want to keep their group tantrum out of the way, then fine.

Depends on the law, I guess. I don't have a problem with the law based on the religious principal of "Thou shalt not kill", for instance, even though it means you're not free to murder other people. If encroaches on a more harmless freedom, then yes, I'm against it. But since I'm not really against gay marriage, but on the other hand I just can't bring myself to take the side of a bunch of obnoxious children, I stay out of that particular fray. Is my reasoning petty?  Maybe it is. Sue me. (But at least my reasoning isn't religious, right?) There are a lot of people like me out there (and some of them are gay--there are many, many reasonable gay people who are quite embarrassed by the behavior of the "We're here, we're queer" crowd).

If you want me on your side, your first step would be to get the hell out of my face. Watch the Home Design shows. If that was the main way gays portrayed themselves to the world, you'd have your gay marriage already.

Liar

non-Sequitur.  I can provide a link to Bozo the clown, it still does not address the issue, now does it?

I am not telling myself anything.  You are simply lying and hoping no one will actually watch the video to see your lie.

No, because he made a joke about Obama.  A pretty good one, but sadly non-PC.  You are the only racist in that discussion.

Liar.  You are deranged, or as the others have indicated, suffering from SS.  And you are really ignorant of your supposed faith.

I believe I did, shall I restate the obvious to everyone but you?

That you do not understand Vatican II or your professed religion is your problem (one of many).

Another Lie {YAWN}  You did get tiring.  Please go back and re-read my posts and then quote my position on the Mosque.  Until then, all you are doing is lying.

Yes, you do not have one, nor understand it.

All you have made are assumptions that s why you cannot quote anything in context, cannot understand a video, and cannot provide any links to back up any of your supposed facts.  You have stated none, just assumptions, lies and ignorance.

Perfect illustration of the above - now prove it.  Link to the laws that have denied you any freedoms.  of course you never will, because you have no facts, just lies.

"Let them eat cake."

Gotta admire that liberal love for the common folk, it's so touching!

big·ot·ry

  /ˈbɪgətri/  Show Spelled[big-uh-tree]  Show IPA

–noun, plural -ries.

1.

stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.

2.

the actions, beliefs, prejudices, etc., of a bigot.

 

prej·u·dice

   /ˈprɛdʒədɪs/  Show Spelled [prej-uh-dis]  Show IPA noun, verb, -diced, -dic·ing.

–noun

1.

an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason.

2.

any preconceived opinion or feeling, either favorable or unfavorable.

3.

unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, esp. of a hostile nature, regarding a racial, religious, or national group.

4.

such attitudes considered collectively: The war against prejudice is never-ending.

5.

damage or injury; detriment: a law that operated to the prejudice of the majority.

 

 

 

One shouldn't be so quick to "ignore" their  base.

 

You do not have to be a simpleton or an egotistical moron with superiority syndrome to realize the only people that are defending Obama are the brain dead.  After all, look at who is current supporters are - buh-buh-Biden (who if he had 2 brain cells they would collide and self destruct) and Pelosi - the real power behind the thrown!  No one else capable of stating their name is defending him at this time.

Great!  But it doesn't make it any more compatible with modern living in the United States.  It's still violence.  They're the exact, same thing. You think the victims of a clinic bombing give a shit whether jeebus sanctioned them getting blown up?  Hell no.  They just care that some jesus kook tried to kill them. 

You continuously refuse to equate Christian violence with Muslim violence.  You apply a double standard - where one gets by with a wink and the other does not. 

LOL.  So, blocking traffic is an affront to your freedom.  Shoving religious values down your through  ---- ok ok ---provided that they're christian religious values ---- doesn't bother you. 

Right.  Because the only reason we have laws against murder is because Jeebus says so.  

Nop. 

Nop.  You asked for links.  I gave you links.  To exactly what we were discussing. 

Again, maybe it's an issue of upbringing.  If you don't see anything violent in that video, you're absolutely out of your mind. 

LOL.  DG:  you're not the pope.  You don't decide who understands Catholicism.  And again, I've got quite a bit more exposure than you to the issue. 

Nop.  You're just changing your story. 

Wrong.  How do you explain it DG? 

Prop 8.  Move on. 

Well what do you want Nitro?  They're hayseeds. Why else would they stick to the fervent beliefs in a 2000 year old irrational belief system? 

The violence is, as everybody repeatedly agrees. Christianity and Sharia are quite different. That is the argument. The proof of that is that no one has killed you. Rolled their eyes at you, yes. Killed you, no.

Like I said, you don't even believe it.

So every time I agreed that no degree of violence is acceptable, I was actually apologizing for christian violence. Every time I asserted that what those particular Christians did was wrong, and was a crime, I was actually saying it was okay. Gotcha.

One more time, Dan. Christians kill despite their religion, Sharia Muslims kill because of their religion. That is the difference. I could easily say you're apologizing for Muslim violence, and would be just as right.

Technically, yes it is. Am I being serious here? A little. Not entirely. Come on, Dan, we're arguing on the internet. We're not changing the world here--I'm amusing myself, and you're unleashing your deep hatred for all things not totally in agreement with you. How seriously do want me to take this?

I guess all you know are links to clowns since you have given no links to back up anything you say.  Are you really bee pee under another name?  You are acting just like him.  Perhaps it is just a symptom of the malady called liberalism.

BTW:  The word is No, Nope.  Nop mean no operation - as in you have no clue.

Note to the clueless - THERE IS NO VIOLENCE IN THAT VIDEO. Period.  if there was, anyone could see  it, yet the only violence that has been seen is by the liberal NYDan" that stabbed the cabbie.

I am not Euclid either, but I can say who understands Euclidean geometry - BECAUSE I DO UNDERSTAND IT.  You do not have to be Catholic to understand Catholicism, and I dare say that most people understand it better than you, catholic or not.

Another lie - My story has stayed the same while yours is waffling worse than a carnival snack stand.

Liar - How did that take away any of YOUR rights.  And I will even let you include ANYONE's rights.

Yes, the arrogant egotists who is so stupid, he does not realize that his condescending and ignorant trash talk is not winning friends, just antagonizing potential allies.  I am surprised you can fit that head through any door way.  It being empty only means it is easier to carry.

you can be dead serious.  You have the RIGHT to move about the country as you see fit.  It is part of the right of freedom.  By denying you that right, they are taking away your freedom.  Dan is just dead wrong.  I wonder if he would think it is "right" to be denied the ability to get out of his house - for no crimes committed.  That would be ok, right Dan?  Just nail his feet to the floor and he should be happy as a pig in slop.

Humbordt, you mean I can agrue for something that I am totally against and no one will know!  Also, some people may feel that they are changing the world by changing one person's view.   Heck, with one less person that only leaves 6,864,826,224 more to go. 

Yet, for some to change their views there does need to be some rational and logic.

How then shall we live?  I don't know who this 'Jeebus' is, yet how do you feel people should live?  Also, age of a belief system doesn't necessary make it irrational.  You have a belief system and there is faith involved whether you're atheist or agnoistic.  Since, you're not an advocate for 'Jeebus', what is your belief system?

Ever talk to a farmer Dan? You put a broad label on a large group. Especially many that produce your food supply. Just curious was that group of Muslims that Obama spoke to last week just a bunch of hayseeds (or date seeds) as well? After all they stick to "their fervent belief" in Allah. Is that an old irrational belief system too? You seem to be here to defend it. Now if that is not the case, or you feel the same about all religions, fine. It would be a simple thing to state and move on.

The other underlying issue (and I believe it is the main one here) is the one about is it insensitive to build a mosque, or community center with a mosque in it, so close to ground zero. You're either for it or not, from a legal or moral viewpoint. As far a religion, I find it interesting to hear someone so opposed to an idea, defend such a similar one so vigorously. Or is it you just don't like Christianity and everything else is fine? You can say it, there won't be a knock on your door, and you just might clear up the reason for the stand you are making.

New development apparently the landowner of the site of the proposed "community center" was a mear waiter 8 short years ago. If I ever heard a ringing endorsement for the Bush years it was this, where a man can go from rags to riches so quickly. Seems this administration is taking that idea in reverse. Anyway, this guy seems to be tight lipped about the money he purchased this and other properties with. Must be some big tippers in NYC. Stay tuned.

you can't equate them.  A "Christian" (so called) is doing it AGAINST their leader's wishes and against  fellow believers.  A Muslim is doing it with many blessings from their leaders and generally with help from their fellow worshippers.  There's is no equation. It's the exact opposite (which is how Satan influences people to go) of the Christian faith.    When you have full support and comraderie, from your leaders and friends behind you, there's going to be a lot more killing from that side than from the side where  any type of violence is strongly discouraged. 

Agan... a "Christian" (So called) is doing this by himself, a lone ranger so to speak going AGAINST the faith.  A Muslim has pals and clerics who help him kill as many with one shot as they possibly can with no thought to their own life in the process.  It doesn't go against their faith,  In fact, it's applauded. 

No equation at all. 

I really can't fault him too much.  After all - it is what Obama said about the average American.  The one that goes to work 5 9or more) days a week and produces the greatness of this country.  It is not the Metro-sexuals of the big cities.

I guess Dan's major short coming is that he is just too egotistical to even see his ignorance.  He has a strong sense of self worth that is not born out by his poor writing or communication skills.  He accuses me of being the Pope when I am not the one re-writing the tenets of the Catholic Church.

That is the 3rd time that point has been made by (I believe) 3 different posters.  Yet he continues to not understand it.  I do not think repeating it ad infinitum is going to help him understand it. 

but more importantly, I would ask why he is here instead of demonstrating outside his house.  After all, the Muslims only wanted to tear down an old Hot Dog stand Chicago, not build a mosque next to HIS house.

That's the point I was making (that no degree is acceptable--I seem to recall somebody saying that), but I really can't honestly say I get all that indignant when things like that happen.

I'm not arguing something I'm totally against (although, yes, you can do that), I'm just not as passionate about it as I may have let on. It causes me more eye-rolling than righteous anger.

And Dan's not trying to change anybody's mind, he's lashing out (if he is trying to change minds, he's going about it in a highly questionable manner). And I don't believe I could change his mind even if I wanted to. He's not here to exchange ideas, he's here to scream in people's face. I'll play with him for as long as I feel like doing it, but nothing I (or anybody else) has to say is going to change him. He'll either let go of all that hate one day or he won't.

And Dan, I realize I'm talking behind your back here (well, sorta-kinda), but I still love ya, man!