well... the guy suing is making those points:

1. Rather then provide a judge with his authentic COLB (and be done with it) he has filed a motion to suppress.

2. Has confirmed the KOB released certificate to be authentic, when it is clearly a low grade forgery.

3. Had to have given up his american citizenship to attend school when he was a kid.

4. He says obama's grandma says she was there when he was born in kenya, obama said he was born in a hospital in hawaii, obama's sister said he was born in another hospital in hawaii (not the same one).

So lets see, 1 is not being denied by anyone, and unless this is a gotcha move (where he produces it in the last minute to discredit them) than he is only hurting himself. 2 is something you can confirm yourself (and I did). 3 I do not understand enough about to give a verdict. 4, this one is hearsay, he said she said. Did they really say that? does he have proof that they said that?

The big red flag is the endorsement of an obviously fake certificate. Anyone, with a teeny bit of photo editing skills OR a bit of background research can find it to be fake, there are so many different things that are wrong with it...

Either that, or it is a very fake looking original. Or rather... original certified copy. Since it was produced in Jun 6 2007 using a laser printer with 11/01 format. Maybe there has been some confusion of definitions (original vs fake used by some, while others mean original vs copy)

The guy suing is a nut.

He previously sued George Bush and Richard Cheney for committing 911.

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2007/01/philip-j-berg-nutbar-supreme.html

Hawaii confirms the existence of the birth certificiate:

http://www.kitv.com/politics/17860890/detail.html?rss=hon&psp=news

Obama's grandma might have said a lot of things, but she is not a stable person and will make up any story she thinks would be nice about her grandson.

I have not heard rumours about Indonesian schools not accepting foreigners.

Interesting, thanks for the info.

But seeing as I am an open minded individual (I was taught a person should have a liberal mindset... and that liberal means "an open minded individual who beleives in good", I kept the mindset but discarded the party association).. I wan't to judge his claims, not his own varacity as a speaker. Crazy people were right about things before.

No matter how much I disagree with an opinion, I look at the facts claimed by the individual to try and verify them or counter them. (which is why I would argue with bigots instead of dismissing them as racist to begin with; this gives me peace of mind knowing how faulty their arguments are, and that I am not deluding myself in the name of so called goodness).

As far as I can see now, the "best case scenario" is that obama released a certified copy of his birth certificate. Then his campaign confirmed it was "original", and original was taken as "the originally created document" and not "an original certified copy produced in 2007; with some minor issues".

This is one possible counter for point #2. The other is that the person claiming it to be authentic is lying. People have done that before. I am personally surprised that there is no comitee / judge verification of a person prerequisites before they even attempt to run for presidency.

As for

Although, in retrospect, even if somehow he is right though (a nut can still be right about things, by coincidence) it is better for this to be settled by election and not on a technicality.

Maybe the best thing that can happen to the US right now is obama demolishing the ecnomy, resulting in a great depression, and an "awakening" of sorts... But that is a big maybe.

Or maybe obama or mccain would be elected and end up fulfilling none of their promises...

the AofG videos are readily available - try watching them

No, the Clinton hate obsession was/is earth shattering.  Though the demonizing of Obama may wind up beating them out - time will tell.  I don't recall who's quote it is, but it's more relavant than ever - something to the effect that the stronger one clings to a label such as 'christian', the less likely one is to actually exhibit the traits associated with that label".  You realize, that Jesus was a liberal. Help the sick, give to the poor, etc.  WWJVF?  who would Jesus vote for?  Obama, that's who.  Now stop being so mean!

When it comes to forgiving people for their sins and attempting to heal them, BO's the sorta fella he had in mind.

Can't wait for the Good Rev Wright to be appointed as Chief Cleric at the National Cathedral.  Should be most interesting.

If I recall stories of the man correctly, Jesus was very much into giving one's own money to help the poor. I don't think he was known for taking other people's money (who knows what they would have done with it) to help the poor.

There are two forms of Christianity: self-Christianity (you give to the poor) and projected Christianity (you think others should give to the poor). Jesus was probably more a supporter of the first type.

Who would he vote for? Considering Obama's support for very late abortions and his association with racist preachers, I would doubt that Jesus would vote for him.

And you can demonstrate this?

I can see where you would mistakenly believe that.  But like all those who have only hate, you cannot see your own hate for the anger.  There was no hate of clinton.  There is and was a lot of contempt.  And there is a big difference.  But to you that only sees hate and only gives hate, I dont expect to see that.  Your hatred of Bush the last 8 years and now Palin (who is NOT running for president - although to see the mis-information and hate you would think so) is unprecedented.  Bu no longer unexpected.

I actually feel sorry for you.  You have nothing left but hate.  Even Obama winning will not sooth the hate as you will just find another target.

That is your inherant mistake about American liberals.  To them, your money is their money.  Obama has just been honest about it, but all you have to do is read the loony boards to understand they dont want to work for it, they want to be given it.

BTW:  As for Jesus being anything, arguments can be made for each side - against!  Jesus talked about loving your enemy, not "God ---- America of the KKK".  I doubt Jesus woudl have anything to do with those Pharisees.

There was a scene in one of the 1960s Three Musketeers' movies (my favourite versions of the many) where Cardinal Richelieu talked to the captain of his guards and gave him orders to do evil.

The captain acknowledged the order and before he went to execute it he told the cardinal about his feelings about the orders:

"I hate you."

The cardinal smiled and answered:

"It is different for me, my son, I love you."

I believe that is the kind of love some liberals promote. That's why the most vile anti-Semites can claim that they do not hate. They love everyone. They are just capable of doing mean things while loving the victim.

For Jesus to be in the business of politics especially Obama's politics he would have to abandon his own truth.