I agree.  No one should spend money on this game.  It's nothing at all like what was promised, it doesn't work at all, and it was all a big sham scam to get dat $$$

That's true, a lot of corporate entities and product reviewers lie to consumers. We all know this too well I'm sure from personal experiences over the years. When a reviewer says there isn't a button for something when there is a button for something, that's just a lie, I don't know how to else to explain it other then to think he was too blind/stupid to see it. Hell, if you hover your mouse over the button it even tells you what it is . If a reviewer can't see that, then that person shouldn't be a reviewer, period. At least not one I'd take any advice from.

You're right...I am disappointed that I paid $50 and it is not up to not only my standard, but general industry standards of polish and completion.  I am also, as mentioned, at a loss for how a game in this state can receive a 90% review.  It's not an issue of me making a complex/difficult program, but an issue of Stardock not being able to deliver a finished one when other development studios are able to.  My issue is not with bugs, but with broken/unfinished features and mechanics that are present in all copies of the game.  I see nothing conflicting in the opinion I posted...that the game is currently broken, but that through the mess I see oodles of potential that I hope will be built upon in the next year and transform the product into something everyone can hail as one of the best 4x games of the last decade.

You apparently have some anger issues, and are unable to participate in civil dialogue. 

Let's just sum this up by saying that the reviewed version of the game does not deserve an objective 9/10, but the amount of improvement and support this game will get over the years to come will equate to a more than adequate return on a $50 investment. The salient point here being that if anyone purchased the game as a result of reading that review, they should not be disappointed in the mid-to-long term or overall.

In the meantime, good reviews and PR should increase the sales of what will ultimately be a great game, and thereby support a company that is dedicated to delivering great games. So, there is a direct benefit to us gamers if we continue to promote the good aspects and not focus on the issues that should soon be resolved, except of course when bringing them to the attention of the developers who have thus far demonstrated unprecedented communication and co-operation with the community.

Istrari you stated it very well.  I was a bit upset when i posted before because I had few problems with the game and I can see Stardock tried to do an excellent job with the game.  I still think it deserves a 9 out of 10, but everyone is entitled  to their opinion.  I suppose if people want to rant about how "unfinished" it is I should not let it bother me, though to me it is far and above most shlock that comes out for mass market gaming.

Thanks for putting things straight. Sorry for being just a bit upset, but I think Stardock should have more respect for its customers than putting out a masterlist de facto invalidating even the basics of both game design and content, and then linking to one good review out of 10 bad. Putting a smiley in the dev posts and making jokes about your private life will not help, I'm sorry. What this behaviour implies is that no mistake was made, the game is actually already a masterpiece but Stardock is so nice to work even further on it for us, for free, please thank Stardock for it some more.

In fact, what has happened here is that the community tries to salvage a game that Stardock unfortunately was unable to release in even an acceptable version. The customers do the work for the company - which is fine as long as the cooperation works, just that we now know it didn't up to this point. Maybe it can work better in the future, if people are willing to take lessons-learned to heart and communicate about it.

And that is what's worst, I feel, that there has never been any real apology or even acknowledgement of the fact that releasing the game in this state against the advice of the Beta community was a disastrous decision (especially for the costumers, and even more for the true fans (beta testers) who were all downloading versions even worse than the Day 0 version). 

I honestly think there should be an acknowledgement and apology to people who have payed for the game, contributed to its development and in thanks receive a list of problems to be fixed during the coming months not to say years. Actions speak loder than words, and the fact that the game is being not only peppered with patches but actually reworked is the clearest hard fact about the state of Elemental. There will always be fanboys and beginning players without a clue (not meant in a derogatory way). If the game had been above 5/10, we could be working on a real Expansion by now, not on salvaging the sunken ship.

Sorry for being a bit upset, but enough is enough, and I can't stand hearing people seriously arguing for 9/10 based on a dev post while simultanously reading the dev's own list which screams disaster.   

I apologize for the lenght of this one, but bare with me...

We're all gamers here.  The first questions during an interview are "What games are you playing ATM?", "Whats the last game youve completed?", and "Whats your favorite game of all time?".

From both the gamer and developer perspective, the Elemental release has thrown me for a loop...what the hell happened? When GalCiv2 shipped, it had a FPS bug that melted video cards and garnered a similar 'master list' of bug fixes, missing features and polish points that we wanted to get in but couldn't. I feared the worst there, and its release was a dream compared to Elementals launch, which I enjoyed considerably more (when I got a chance to play it) than GC2's launch version equivelant.

The problem with using the 'master list' as solid proof that we should have KNOWN the game was unfinished is that ALL games ship with lists of 'wish we coulda done that' features and content. Releasing a game is always going to be a calculated risk..no matter how polished it is, and how much time it spends in the cooker, there will ALWAYS be lists (like the one posted in the journals) of things a game studio wished they could have improve upon.

And we will always want more time, and it will always go out 'too soon' for our stantards...but this time we greatly miscalculated what was needed for the game to be 'done', by both critical measures (averaging 6/10 in reviews) and public mesaures(50% dissatisfaciton rate in the forum poll).

As an employee of Stardock that worked on a product that many customers find sub-standard, I apologize. As a fellow gamer, I can understand the frustration and anger. Final Fantasy 13 sits, collecting dust at 10 hours in because it's not what I had hoped for and dreamt of as a next-gen FF game. And while I dont think we'll ever match their crazy levels of polish (it's mind-blowing, really) the only consolation I can give is that we can take everyones complaints and frustrations and make Elemental BETTER from them....one of the remaining benifits of PC development.

Most games are-what-they-are, and I agree that Elemental should be graded on the same measure. But I do ask that you view the master list, and our goals from this point on, not as proof of failure, but as proof that Elemental can, and will, be improved to a level of quality that knocks that 50% disatisfaction rate down to something less...horrible.

As gamers, we agree with almost all of the suggestions posted. As developers, we'll continue intergrating those suggestions to make the game something worthy of a Neoseeker-like review in everyone's eyes.

(Though I'm still going to enjoy the 9/10 we received.) 

OK, back to wrapping up 1.07!

Thanks a lot for quick and direct reply. It is much appreciated. And now we should better get back to pitching the game towards the 9/10 mark, indeed!   

Regarding the Master List, some might consider it quite brave of the company to be so forward with its customer base, and might also mark that as a sign of respectfulness, as honest upfront communications are normally received in this manner, and are preferred over the more common practice of glossing over the facts or ignoring them entirely. Further, the Master List is an admission of mistakes, and as such cannot be perceived as behaviour demonstrating the contrary as you have stated.

I'm from Australia, and our former Prime Minister Kevin Rudd publicly and formally apologised to the Indigenous Australians. They are no better off today than they were before that as a result. Even under the assumption that an apology is owed, the truth is as you have stated, namely that actions speak louder than words. The Master List is not only an admission of mistakes, but also a promise of action that is being implemented as we speak.

As for the linking to a positive review and the jovial nature of dev posts, the justifications for this are two-fold. Firstly, there is the responsibility towards company stakeholders, including employees. Secondly, the financial means to improve this game as well as create future titles must also be considered. Good reviews and PR will put the game, the developers and the company in a better light and will only serve to improve the whole situation.

You are entitled to be disappointed and upset and to voice your grievances. However, in doing so, you and other people who comment along the same lines or with a similar tone are in fact working against your own interests. No-one and nothing is perfect. Mistakes occur everywhere and all the time. The best strategy is to remain positive and work at improving the situation rather than dwelling on what is and what could have been.

Quoting Istari:

I am all for the publication of the list. But it does show the game is not a 9/10. The list did never annoy me, only the tone of this OP in light of reality, just to make things clear.

To me at least this seems like a very brave and good thing to do, especially for a politician. We are not machines you know, words do matter. But then we need action, as we both agree.

My only comment to this must be that I was troubled when Elemental came out in this state, seeing the reactions on the web, in other reviews ... For a company, the release time is when you have the spotlight. This is when you have the chance to project the image and message you want to get across. So, yes it was in the interest of all of us to get especially that moment right. But, forgive me, I don't think we should consider putting a gag on Elemental's own forum, not then and even less now. I can assure you that the main message is already out, whatever is said in a short reply here. To the contrary, a frank debate here can at least change things, as is clearly shown too!  

Yes, like just stated. Also by BoogieBack himself. So, hmm, after the exchange with the dev team right above where this is the conclusion, you write a long reply going back again... Let's just move forward now instead, with the answer we actually got from the dev team themselves!   

Here here!

I can understand why you would find that annoying, as it is putting a better spin on something that does not completely reflect the accolades. It may help to view it from a different perspective though. EWoM has had obvious problems at launch that could affect its overall success via unfavourable reviews and negative internet chatter. Consider this image problem to be an illness, and the treatment to be the positive spin and friendly communications with the community.

There had actually been a good deal of public pressure on the previous administration to make this concession, and they refused. Rudd had nothing to lose and everything to gain by apologising. Having said that, his apology was utterly useless, and more than that, it was very insulting and condescending when he did not follow up with appropriately adequate policy. The point here is that if a choice arose between words and promised action, or just action, the latter is always preferrable as it is in itself a far more sincere form of apology.

My point here was not about one or two comments in one or two forums, but rather the amalgamation of negatively toned responses to the issues as a whole. While I don't presume to tell anyone what or what not to say or do, I can still point out the consequences of these collective actions. Were there not already large scale amendments being made and problems addressed, a frank debate and call for apology might to some degree have an overall beneficial effect. But when the remedy is already being applied, this category of complaint can only be taken as detrimental negativity, and not contributing to an improvement in the state of affairs.

Sorry, I was in the middle of typing my comment when BoogieBac posted his. However, I would like to point out that you yourself seemed to be placated by the very same public relations strategy that you said you found annoying. When BoogieBac responded in a friendly way with smiley faces, and told you what you wanted to hear (not to say that he wasn't sincere), your tone changed immediately and you were satisfied. This was despite the fact that your comment and those like it actually result in a resource shift from development to PR, with BoogieBac in this instance having to take the time to post a positive comment to counterbalance the negativity of yours.

Respect!

@ Istari

Why don't we just cut the crap (sorry for language) on this. Did you read Frogboy's (Brad Wardell, CEO of Stardock) own comments on the launch in the thread on Why everyone is so upset? In light of this, I think you should just stop, without me explaining why.

Maybe you just wanted the last word, or you have been smoking something (that last line was a joke, no?). I asked for an apology and got one five minutes later by the dev in charge at the moment, so yes I replied I appreciate that. Doesn't mean there are no issues with the game, but this is not the thread to sort all of those out.

And yes, if you want the last word you are welcome to reply to this and I won't continue this "exchange".