I voted days ago.

They can CHOOSE to put their hands over their hearts if they want to.  Some people do that when they hear the anthem, some don't.  I don't see very many at all doing at events where the anthem is played...period.

Good grief.  Exactly the point.

No, in fact, I think it's safe to say that ALL Americans would like to see fewer abortions. 

The only way that is going to happen is with proper (not based on ignorance and denial) sex education and free access to birth control.  If the right wing would get their head out of their collective asses about "sex happens", the vast majority of unwanted pregnancies would disappear in the world, and along with it, abortion.

The nation, as a whole, decided this long ago, and the fundamentalists do themselves a grave disservice by reviving this albatross on a regular basis.  Today's generation has grown up with Roe v. Wade as the law of the land, and no matter how hard the passing generation tries to make it an issue again, it's time has come and gone.

Actually, the courts decided that it was the right of the potential mother to CHOOSE whether or not she would bring a child to term.

Again, despite what the fundamentalists would have you believe, no mother takes an abortion lightly.

Regardless, this should be a topic thread all unto itself. Or maybe not.

Right.  Though I guess we are to assume that because he was raised differently, as I was, that somehow we are LESS patriotic than those who make this "gesture"? 

Well, you just keep trying to beat that dead "flag pin" horse.  As for me, it seems as though the American people don't see it the way you do.  Of the three people in that ridiculously irrelevant photo, who's the one left standing in the race?

It's easy to wear a flag pin and claim you're a patriot.  In fact, it takes exactly as much time and thought as it does to just believe the big and little lies politicians tell at face value.  Easy peasy.

But maybe, just maybe, other Americans express their love of this nation not through meaningless "flag pins" and shows of blind obedience 24/7 but by actually voting and campaigning and donating their money and their time to make their country a better place for all of us - even the people they disagree with.

I'm so looking forward to the marginalization of Texas with the end of Big Oil over the next 50 years and the passing of Prescott Bush's family dynasty...beginning today.

No, that would be me and Superman. 

Seriously, there's more than one way that we can show our love for our country.  I accept that.  You apparently do not.

Ditto.  I'm dropping off my mail in ballot today.  I was so busy posting here, I missed the cut-off to mail it. 

But while I think anything regarding religion is a matter of personal choice and not up for "debate", rather than ignore your grenade in the middle of this discussion (like everyone else is), I'm going to throw myself on top of it. 

I hope that you will start a separate thread if you are genuinely interested in discussing this issue.  Thank you.

Exactly my point. The court has no authority to make that decision. No man has the authority to make that decision. Biblically speaking, life begins before conception. Period.

I agree that no mother takes abortion lightly, I am simply saying that it's not her decision; it's not about her body. It's about the life inside of her. Let it be born or kill it prematurely. This is not a light decision! Only one reason why a mother should not even consider it.

Promiscuity and illigetimate births have skyrocketed since sex ed was introduced. Sex ed and free b/c does not fix the problem; it causes more to become sexually active. Kids need to learn about the birds & the bees from their parents.

Sad thing is that many parents are inept themselves. So many of our society's ills would be fixed if the homes in our society were fixed. At the rate we're going, that may never happen.

Not a grenade, my friend.

And I've said everything I have to say.

Fortunately for the majority of Americans, the court has found that it IS the woman's decision.  I respect your right to disagree, for whatever reason you deem sufficient.  But, understand, it isn't going to change.  That time has passed.

Tell that to the Palins.

Guess which family, the Palins or the Obamas, taught their kids the truth about human sexuality, rather than trying to bury it beneath the sand like an ostrich's head?

I'll bet hard currency that neither of Obama's daughters get pregnant as teenagers.  Mark my words.

But seriously, how about you back up that ludicrous assertion with some cited studies or facts? 

As for me, I'm going to turn to historical fact to prove to you that the "good old days" are a lie.

In older days, like less than a century ago, women got married and pregnant as soon as they passed through puberty, 12-14.  This was because infant mortality was horribly high and because child-bearing women rarely survived past their mid-twenties.

Divorce was almost non-existant because everyone DIED a lot, leaving women and men who were lucky enough to live into their 70's widows and widowers three or four times over.

So, divorce has taken the place of death in modern society because we have longer life expectancies, and we now tell teenagers (who've been having sex since puberty since the dawn of time - because that's the way "god created them") that we've arbitrarily decided that they're not allowed to foll around anymore. 

Why?  Because it makes some very ignorant and self-righteous prudes and zealots uncomfortable.

Nah, I'm sticking with the 21st century on this one, thanks.

Fair enough.  Let's leave it at that then. 

Now, that's funny!

Agreed.