Craig Fraser is with Ironclad, and replied earlier in this thread.  Co-Founder of Ironclad Blair Fraser comments on these forums as well.

boshimi336

reply 107

If Rebellion sells 300,000 copies and we can only find 30 to 80 people online at any given time (kind of like Diplomacy), the devs have clearly made extremely serious mistakes.

Feels like IC is just in a consulting role these days @_@.

Either that, or the target audience of the game (not surprisingly) are mature people with jobs/college/kids that just don't like the hectic pace and different mindset of multiplayer, myself included.

Bear in mind that this game is considered a Stardock game (even though it's made by Ironclad), and most of Stardock's fanbase prefer long (even days-long), thought-provoking, stress-relieving singleplayer games against the AI, instead of having to cope with childish rushing, trash-talking brats, dealing with the induced stress of multiplyer, while having to constantly prove themselves as 'good enough' (we have enough of that in our daily lives, thank you very much).

The problem is that this is repeated in this forum over and over and over and over, yet the multiplayer 'crowd' never quite seem to grasp that. I'll let you figure out why (hint: look in my second paragraph).

Gormoth, so you're implying that the online multiplayer crowd is composed of unemployed losers (who don't have to prove themselves on the job each day)?  Why not just come right out and say that explicitly instead of making such cute innuendos?

In your view, is it possible that there are mature people (some of whom might even have college educations or advanced or professional degrees even) out there (who might even have children) who work stressful full-time jobs and who have to prove themselves on the job everyday who also enjoy competitive activities such as raquetball or online multiplayer in their free time?  Or, are competitive strategy games something that only unemployed unmarried childless losers and high school kiddies can enjoy?

Adult responsibilities and activities would certainly reduce the amount of time that people can spend playing the game, but even a great many people who work 40 hours/week still have some free time on weeknights and weekends to get a couple 2.5 hour games in each week if computer gaming is what they enjoy doing during their free time.

The real issue isn't whether or not someone has adult responsibilities, but their mentality and temperament.  Online multiplayer PvP just simply isn't for everyone.  Some people don't have a competitive streak and/or don't enjoy playing strategy games against legitimate opponents.  Some people prefer to play against retarded computer opponents and feel good about themselves because they can outsmart feckless algorithms after having played against the algorithms for years.

There's nothing wrong with playing against the AI if that's what you enjoy, but you're wrong to snidely imply that the people who prefer non-retarded real opponents in their strategy games are immature unemployed losers who don't have adult responsibilities.  Your dropping of the "maturity bomb" accusation almost suggests that you feel some sort of a need to compensate for your insecurities by accusing those who engage in an intimidating activity (to you) of being immature.

Hahaha well said Gormoth1, well said!

I don't think you are going to get through though

Haree, what message do you think is failing to get through?  Did I misinterpret what he said in some sort of a way when I responded to his post?  Please do the charitable thing and explain it in simple language for the ignorant masses to whom the message won't get through.

You guys are awesome. This is better than television! *grabs a bowl of popcorn and a drink*

Some people prefer single-player. I understand that. But the fact remains that those who play single-player exclusively are missing out on a whole lot of the actual "strategic" element of the game due to the fact that their AI opponents are, to be blunt, not very good. Even with the advantages granted at Cruel and Vicious, the AI keeps falling into the same game-breaking mistakes, like charging headfirst into starbases, like not retreating their caps even when they start to take a lot of damage, like always spamming LF in the beginning, like having little to no sense of structure placement... there are too many to list. Fighting AI simply isn't a decent challenge.

Multiplayer adds a whole new dimension to the game, and those who refuse to play it are missing out. Now, if you aren't very good, and if you're all right with fighting an enemy against whom you will always win, that's fine, although disappointing... but multiplayer is where your opponents can actually provide you with a challenge.

If building a significant fleet early in the game is a good strategy, why label it as "childish"?

Sucks. All online games have a number of problem players, unfortunately. That said, they are easily ignored.

Dirty,

I dont think he is implying anyone who plays on ICO is a bum or a loser in life.

The simple fact is all MP games no matter what type (RTS, FPS, MMO, etc) is infested with people who use the anynomous nature of the internet to just be plain rude.

It is a fact of life when plaing online. And yes its part of it. Competive gaming bring out the worst in people and it sad really.

My take on his point of view is he is one who vaules his time in a way where gaming should be a relaxing experence. Why should someone have to deal with the trolls, griffers, etc etc etc when they dont have too?

Simply majority of players dont want to waste their time dealing with what could be a 13 year old kid, being totaly disrepectful b/c they can. (I use this as an example, not saying everyone online is a kid) There nothing wrong with trash talk and such. But there is a correct way to do it and not. The latter is what 99% of the internet does.

You will find ICO numbers have suffered b/c of the this mentality. The already establoished players based, is relentless. If your not a regular your expect to run a trial by fire. Being kicked out of games b/c your a 'smurf', told over and over you suck, uninstall you game, etc etc.

If that what the first dozen games are like for someone here no wonder they dont come back.

Yes other games have this issue. And its a bigger issue in many other games. But what we dont have is numbers. One great game with respectable people can hook someone. The odds of finding that though in this game...dismaly low.

In my experiences online, even when I was very new, I never had any problems with those sorts of things. "Siddy"s are much much more uncommon on ICO than this thread would have you believe, and the new player stats / smurf aspect is usually only a problem if you join one of Howthe's games.

I very very rarely see trash talk, although it does happen here and there. Perhaps it's just because of the times or types of games I play, but from my experience, griefers are rarely a significant issue.

That's exactly what he said, but you have to read between the lines.  Here's the relevant quoted material from his post:

Gormoth thought he was being smart and clever with his snide innuendo and comments.  He pretty much says that in the last part of his post:

When you read this, you're supposed to imply that the reason why the multiplayer crowd never quite seems to grasp what he is claiming is because they don't have to constantly prove themselves as "good enough" in their daily lives (unemployed or high school kids).  In other words, Gormoth is saying that the reason why the multiplayer crowd doesn't understand his reasons for not wanting to play online multiplayer is precisely because they are immature people who are unemployed and/or lack other adult responsibilities such as having to care for kids.

Gormoth might think that he's cool and mature and better than his fallacious perception of the people who play online multiplayer (the unemployed childless girlfriendless losers who barely graduated from high school and who can't get a decent job or get laid), but his belief is probably based on a sense of inadequacy that comes from knowing that he doesn't have the cajones to play real opponents and the mental fortitude needed to brush off any childish behavior that might occur on the Internet.

Yeah, I kinda knew this will lead to the multiplayer guys flying off the handle, so it really was my fault. Sorry for the obvious flame bait, but I just didn't like Wrath89's comment on blaming Ironclad/Stardock for something that clearly is the behavior of their fanbase.

I think -Ue_Carbon explained my point of view perfectly. Thanks

Honestly, without meaning to offend any further, Dirty, your...shall we say..energetic? behavior is exactly why you seem to like multiplayer: Instead of merely shrugging about my comment or ignoring my snidey little remark, you seem to take it as some sort of a personal challenge you have to win in. Look, I don't care that I win against a 'retarded' computer player, or the fact that you can most certainly beat me online without even looking at your screen. I play for fun. And I bet the fanbase play for fun as well. I just have enough on my plate than to attempt to hone my skill to perfection, and it has nothing to do with Ironclad's or Stardock's multiplayer design or lack thereof.

This is the exact reason why I no longer feel the need to defend against each and every retort you throw at me and check back every minute to see your reply. A few years ago, sure, I would play that game with you, escalating this further and further until it would get personal, but really, I just don't feel the need anymore. Perhaps that's what I meant when I 'dropped my maturity bomb', as you call it.

Really folks, take it down a notch.