I will respond anyway.  If you cant see that selling out your country economically can be the same as militarily than you are as short sighted of a conservative as I have seen.  You should be able to at least admit that it is possible.  Get it man, your giving away good paying jobs to  hundreds of thousands of americans and sending that overseas for people making a buck a day or whatever(much less than americans) all so that you can get an extra yacht or have seven houses.  Again seriously how much is too much for these people You need a red yacht to go with the blue, green and white one you already have?  Ted Guys like you are the reason our country cant move forward, you just dont get it and live a world where the walls constantly keep you in a very small box.  I wish you luck that maybe someone can tear one of those walls down.

Moose, it's so your kids can have toys, so you can have a motorcycle, a TV, a cellphone.  Get real.

No.  No one is giving anything.  You either earn them or not.  And right now, unskilled labor has decided that they are "entitled" to certain things.  Entitilement only works with a tyrannical style of government.  One we are approaching, but are not there yet.  WHen it arrives, I suggest you look to Zimbabwe to see what will happen.  It is not theoretical.  It is a fact.

Mooseplow, because of the friendly gesture that you made on PMs, I'll continue in the discussion with you...

So when you buy something that was made in a state other than where you live, are you betraying your state?  If you shop at one store instead of another, are you betraying the workers at the store  you choose not to shop in?

If a company decides to move their factory from (say) Wisconsin to Utah, are they betraying their state?

You seem to reserve the right to decide where you want to shop, but then you would deny that same right to factory owners?

They actually do - in the form of those increased prices for necessities.  They are taxed, just not directly, which is why liberals prefer that approach.  They can pretend to love the poor while making life more difficult for them and placing more money under their (liberal's ) control.  It's all about control, after all.

In a way yes.  We recently had a scare here in Milwaukee when it was announced that miller and coors were merging for a project and that the HQ moved for sure and they didnt know if they would continue brewing beer here.  I know these things happen Ted it is the nature of business, my point is that when it happens enmasse, it is a deliberate act and it does hurt the nation and many families.  There is a reality to it.  I have friends who have lived that reality, and it wasnt fun.  Shouldnt someone step in to save at least some of these good jobs.  Unfortunately school and advanced degrees are not for everyone.  To them do we just say well tough we dont have any decent jobs for you.  What is the solution then?  Thoughts?

I dont beleive in something for nothing, if we are handing out aid then there should be qaulifications meet to receive that aid, and if it isnt then you dont get it period.  If you are in need help should be there but if your scamming then you get nothing.  My opinion.

Mooseplow:

Excellent example of MY point.  Miller isn't owned by an American company, it has been owned by South African Breweries since 2002.  By your way of thinking, South African Breweries is committing treason against South Africa by allowing the Miller Brewery to stay in Milwaukee.  When South African Breweries decided to keep the brewery in Milwaukee running, those jobs became "outsourced" jobs.

The issue had nothing to do with aid.  At least not from a talking point aspect.  But of how to "demand" higher prices for what amounts to the same product.  As I pointed out, you can demand higher prices, but that takes a dictatorial government to enforce it.  IN a free society, prices are going to be competitive, so a CEO will always make more than a ditch digger - because he produces more.

There are 2 situations that demonstrate that raising prices arbitrarily leads to disaster.  One of course is the current Zimbabwe, where the government, in what amounts to a perfect example of socialism and "fairness" rulings, have decimated a country that was once the envy of the continent.

The other occurred 80 years ago - in Germany.  You might want to google the term "hyper inflation".  The root of both of these problems is the same, even if the actions of the government were a bit different. But the result was the same - the destruction of the society.  All for good intentions of course.

I dont really disagree with what was said here, again my point being that we will have gaps and rich and poor, but those gaps have to be MORE fair and rich people should be MORE PATRIOTIC about poor people.  I know that I, for example will never make CEO money(and I dont need to, to be happy), but I do want my 45-50k a year to be able to feed, cloth and support my damn family, and guess what, right now I cant.  And I dont live beyond my means.  I have no debt and pay my credit cards every month, but in recent months I barely can.  Its at a cost of our future(families that is).

We have gaps in intelligence too.  How are you going to make that fair?  Lobotomize the smart?  If you dont see the stupidity of your argument, then I guess you have already volunteered to make things fair in the intelligence department.

apples and oranges my friend.  We cant do anything about that type of stuff but we can make sure the poor have enough money to feed themselves, and cloth themselves, and maybe be able to go on 1 vacation in their lifetimes, even its only 50 miles from their home.

No, the same fruit.  It is called life and genes.  You may not think it is fair, but the truth is life is not.  Some people are smarter.  Smart people make more money.  YOu would handicap them so they could not.  That is the fallacy of your argument.  Lobotomies for all.

Ok for some lets start with Bush....couldnt help sorry

So, you're saying he's not already had one!?!?  You are dangerously out of step with your comrades, there, Moose.