So? Has he done anything even remotely terrorist like?

Supporting a terrorist organization is something terrorist-like. 

 

That's something I've noticed, there's an over all fear of islam. The average american seems to think that the Muslim next to them just might do something...

Not fear at all, but the average American knows what islam is capable of. 

Supporting a terrorist organization is something terrorist-like.

Okay, so i support our troops, does that mean i supported what those soldiers did at Abu Graib? Or, cause i support our military, does that mean i support WHIMSEC/SOA, where they train foreign governments individuals in interrogation techniques that are torture?

No.

So, until I see them suicide bombing, or training terrorists....*shrugs*

Granted, if they do the former...then everything is taken care of.

Not fear at all, but the average American knows what islam is capable of.

Fear, capabilty.....meh,the thing is...if it gets to a certain point, it's called paranoia.

Ya know, the day the "righties" become the spurned...the "loons" etc... I'm going to sit back, and laugh, because "O how the tables have turned..."

That assumes they are as stupid, a very faulty assumption.

That assumes they are as stupid, a very faulty assumption.

*shrugs* I'm still going to laugh, whether they are stupid or not.

Okay, so i support our troops, does that mean i supported what those soldiers did at Abu Graib? Or, cause i support our military, does that mean i support WHIMSEC/SOA, where they train foreign governments individuals in interrogation techniques that are torture?

That is the most ridiculous thing I have read all day.  You are going to equate supporting American soldiers to that of an organization like Hamas? 

 

Look I'm not apologizing for sh*t. Whip you can re-read my post and just take a pill.

It wasn't immediately clear from the post what this is/was.

What I read in the post, and was I read in the attached links and saw on the video was a bit different. The first post was before I saw any articles except the post, remember I work nights so I didn't get to hear them all talk about this last night on the media endlessly so kiss off.

If you had read and then re-read the fu*king quote whip maybe you'd get that but you are too busy bashing anybody wearing some garb and not jeans, and knocking me, whenever I suggest we treat Americans as Americans instead of "terrorists"

Remind me where and how these guys have committed a crime? Were any weapons carried on board? Did they bring a bomb? Did they scream bomb on the plane? No they're guilty of scaring people that's it. If you weren't so damn willing to be scared, to be terrorized then nothing they had done would even have us talking about it. Save the suspicious behaviour.

"Air marshals, pilots and security officials yesterday expressed concern that airline passengers and crews will be reluctant to report suspicious behavior aboard for fear of being called "racists," Air marshals, pilots and security officials yesterday expressed concern that airline passengers and crews will be reluctant to report suspicious behavior aboard for fear of being called "racists,"

That's what was quoted in the post, and what's cloudy about that? They expressed concern that people in the future, since they haven't charged these guys with anything, will not report suspicious behavior in the future for fear of being labeled a "racist". I'm expressing concern on that too. If you or I were flying and this was going on yeah they're be a hell raised by me and that plane would never have left the tarmac with me on it, with these guys doing this.

How do you know that they weren't just infrequent fliers participating in their daily prayers? How do you know? I don't know, doesn't look that way, but it doesn't necessarily not look that way either. Part of the reason I tend to cut the people, the citizens of the United States, on the airplane some slack, is that they had every right to be on that plane as anybody else, and to pray too.

It is becoming more and more clear this was a stunt. But what of it? Why won't you face the fear and deal with it? These guys very well may have just become so sick of the scapegoat that is Islam and airplanes, that they may have just decided to hell with you guys and launch their own little airplane protest. This could become a national trend if people don't stop labeling Muslims "terrorist" at every opportunity. Imagine if every Muslim that boarded every plane in this country daily did this, just to prove the point that you are scared of your fellow citizen and for what good reason? Paranoia? Are not all passengers not screened before boarding a plane? Is not the cockpit of every American civilian aircraft unimpreginable, is there not a fair shot that U.S. Marshalls are flying on the jet with you? Would not nearly every male and most female passengers on board fight tooth and nail against anybody Muslim or not who didn't sit down and shut the hell up for the flight but stormed the front of the plane or started taking hostages.

Your FEAR is both illogical and childish and whats wrong with this is, Americans in general thinking it's alright to treat Muslims in general like they are bad, evil, and out to get them.

That said. These guys were acting suspicious, I haven't decided because it's too early in the news cycle to know what really happened, they haven't offered an interview to my knowledge, no crime has been committed that I am aware of, all you got is Muslims acting suspicious on a plane, either intentionally or unintentionally what is fact right now, is at no time were any passengers in danger on that plane in any way. These guys if guilty of anything are of disorderly conduct, and refusing to cooperate with airline staff. The airlines can ban them, but as to whether or not that's a crime, well you look it up and tell me.

I know disorderly is, but I doubt refusing to cooperate with airline staff is a crime. Maybe a federal screener but they obviously made it on the plane.

Island Dog, why don't you ask uh who is it Paladin? He's an expert on how we have followed, to the letter, the UCMJ and all the "laws on torture" to train foreign governments to use it.

The military might not be engaging in it, but that leaves the CIA, and anybody working side by side with a foreign government who could give a sh*t less about a persons' rights overseas, we'll not ever know about it, because if you are a detainee you don't have a right to a trial or even know what you are accused of. We don't even need to prove an enemy combatant is an enemy, just that they were there when we rounded em up, locked em up threw away the key.

These "imams" are evidently priests, they prayed before the flight, maybe for good weather lol, and while on board the plane.
"The imams boarded the plane individually, Shahin said, except for a blind member who needed assistance. They didn't sit together and "did nothing," he contended."

One of the guys was blind, yet they still thought he'd be a credible terrorist. I suppose American quadriplegic who prays on a plane, and wears a turban is as good as a "terrorist" too huh Whip?

That is the most ridiculous thing I have read all day. You are going to equate supporting American soldiers to that of an organization like Hamas?

Yes, I am. Both do a duty, which they have sworn to do, for one reason or another.

That is the most ridiculous thing I have read all day. You are going to equate supporting American soldiers to that of an organization like Hamas? Yes, I am. Both do a duty, which they have sworn to do, for one reason or another.

One kills innocents - that is their mission. The other kills killers - that is their mission. That you equate them shows how immature and naive you are. And stupid.

One kills innocents - that is their mission. The other kills killers - that is their mission. That you equate them shows how immature and naive you are. And stupid.

Correction,

One is to fight for/defend Islam, under their caliph or such.

One is to fight for/defend their country, under their commander and chief.


See?

Oh, and doc...if i was immature - then why is it that you do the same? You've been childish, and immature. Such as, on KFCs thread, remember?

Second, I am not stupid, nor am I naive on this. I may be naive about some things, but i've done my reading and research, this is my opinion on it.

Since we're talking about being naive/ignorant, then I could easily say that you are naive/ignorant about me, LW, bondage, and other topics...

Shall I? I won't, because i won't stoop that low.

Just because i don't "go with the flow," doesn't mean I am immature. Funny thing is, i have many people...my professors, my family, my friends (many whom are years and years older than myself), people i know online....who all say i am mature.

So Doc, I say you are wrong.

One kills innocents - that is their mission. The other kills killers - that is their mission. That you equate them shows how immature and naive you are. And stupid.

Correction,

One is to fight for/defend Islam, under their caliph or such.

One is to fight for/defend their country, under their commander and chief.


See?

Oh, and doc...if i was immature - then why is it that you do the same? You've been childish, and immature. Such as, on KFCs thread, remember?

Second, I am not stupid, nor am I naive on this. I may be naive about some things, but i've done my reading and research, this is my opinion on it.

Since we're talking about being naive/ignorant, then I could easily say that you are naive/ignorant about me, LW, bondage, and other topics...

Shall I? I won't, because i won't stoop that low.

Just because i don't "go with the flow," doesn't mean I am immature. Funny thing is, i have many people...my professors, my family, my friends (many whom are years and years older than myself), people i know online....who all say i am mature.

So Doc, I say you are wrong.

Oh come on. You know we can't offend anyone anymore.

I am offended by this statement!

Silent Poet wrote: Fear, capabilty.....meh,the thing is...if it gets to a certain point, it's called paranoia.

Yeah, and one of the ticket agents was afraid to stop some guy boarding a plane because he was Muslim. He did the politically correct thing and let him board. Too bad it was 9/11 and it was one of the hijackers. It might not have stopped the operation but the ticket agent still feels like crap! I would rather err on the side of caution than political correctness.

"Would you be more likely to have an anxiety attack at 20,000 feet if the passenger seated next to you was: A) An Irish nun saying the Rosary? A Mormon missionary in regulation white shirt and narrow, black tie? C) A Hari Krishna in a standard-issue saffron robe? or D) A bearded bloke of Middle Eastern complexion holding a well-thumbed Koran?" Specifically D. A bearded bloke of Middle Eastern complexion holding a well-thumbed Koran? This sort of crap is what people pass off as acceptable criteria for designating people terrorists. Which one is more likely then the other. If it were only that easy.

I am sorry but I can't remember the last time a nun, a Mormon, or a Krishna, hijacked a plane so I would be watching the muslim person. Now if the nun had an 18 inch ruler I would worry, because I have been to Catholic school and I know what they can do with a ruler.

That's something I've noticed, there's an over all fear of islam. The average american seems to think that the Muslim next to them just might do something... It's sad, and horrible. It's fucking despicable.

Not true Poet, My sister died a Muslim and I had to burry her according to her belief. I don't fear Muslims but I do understand how most of the radicals think and that is something to fear.

Mr. Greene wrote: To date, these men have not been charged with a crime, am I right about that? They didn't do anything wrong except be disruptive, and not cooperate with the flight staff, evidently two of them sat in first class. They performed suspicious actions, but they didn't break any laws, just misdemeanors at best.

Interfering with the flight crew in the performance of their duties is a felony, it is normally handled administratively which means they will get a notice in the mail saying they owe a fine of 500 to 2500 dollars. There is no appeal there is no court unless they fail to pay the fine. In which case they have a trial and if convicted they can get up to 10 years in federal prison plus a fine. I used to work for a few airlines when I was younger and that was how it was handled back in the 90’s If you care my title was GSC Ground Security Coordinator. To interfere with the flight crew all you have to do is say no when they ask you to do something.

The military might not be engaging in it, but that leaves the CIA, and anybody working side by side with a foreign government who could give a sh*t less about a persons' rights overseas, we'll not ever know about it, because if you are a detainee you don't have a right to a trial or even know what you are accused of. We don't even need to prove an enemy combatant is an enemy, just that they were there when we rounded em up, locked em up threw away the key.

Mr. Greene you are correct because the UCMJ only covers federal employees inside a war zone and the Military no matter where they are. Usually the FBI watches the torture of local citizens that they don't intend to bring to the US for trial. The FBI is allowed to take notes only, remember that the FBI are guests of the host nation and has no say in how a person it dealt with. The Church Committee outlawed the CIA from the use of torture in 1975.

Whip my comments about them being inexprienced travelers, was indicative of the facts of the post' refrenced articles. I.e. not sitting in the assigned seats as well as not cooperating with the airline staff. The terrorists that struck on 9/11, complied with the laws and didn't unblend in. If they had not blended in, not been so cool as to cause alarm like these guys. Then it may have been a different story.

Look I'll give you that it doesn't look like this was a case of inexprienced travellers.

If that's what you think I agree. No interview of the men by the media has gone over, I've heard no quotes from them except denying anywrong doing.

No explanation for why they were seated in unassigned seats
No explanation for the steatbelt extender
No explanation for why one of them was blind, not that it needs any, just curious as to why you'd take a blind imam on a plane to make a political statement if this is what that was.

Has anybody offered to have these guys on a news program and find out why they did this? Why not?

You and Brad are the first places I've read of this twice. I haven't seen any evidence of that just that they were praying in arabic. "praising Osama Bin Laden"
Doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

If they've disobeyed the flight staff and are charged with a crime then that's yet to be reported. At least to me. Anybody got some more links on this?

You and Brad are the first places I've read of this twice. I haven't seen any evidence of that just that they were praying in arabic. "praising Osama Bin Laden" Doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Passengers and crew reported the men were almost "shouting" anti-American rhetoric and talking about bin laden. These people knew EXACTLY what they were doing.  The real question is now is WHY they were doing it. 

I hope they get charged, but being that the media instantly runs off with the racism charges, its not surprise to me they haven't.

 

Could it be that you're foolish? Nahhh, not wise, mature, Lucas! It's the thousands of people who tell you how freakin' wrong you are day in and day out that are the fools, right, kiddo?

Have I ever, out right, said I was mature? I've admitted that i have a lot to learn, especially given recent personal events.

Oh wait, you *are* a DU reject, aren't you! You really ought to reflect a bit on why you find yourself banned or exiled from almost every forum you participate in.

Whip, you remember why I was banned from here....have I shown any of that behavior since i came back?

1) I've not spammed

2) I've not picked fights, and have been fairly diplomatic on people pushing my buttons.

3) I've not plagerized.


Hmmm, see...i've changed. Just try to deal with that.

While I agree that the DoN is an ignorant fool, you've totally eclipsed his foolishness with your own. His political opinions are often right in line with my own in spite of my personal dislike for the man, while yours read like a DU reject's.

How have i been a fool? In fact, if you wish to answer that question...email me, that way we don't jack IDs thread any more. Okay?

The only reason I got banned from DU is because I wasn't....enough of a crony.

Please keep my name (and sexual preferences) out of your mouth on unrelated threads, Lucas.

While I wasn't specifically referencing you and your preferences (re: the email weeks ago), as it was what came of the top of my head....I will respect your wishes.

That's like equating the KKK with the Democratic Party, they both have a "duty" that they are sworn to do, "for one reason or another." Why do you automatically seek to morally equivocate everything, Lucas? Are you that scared to use...(gasp)...JUDGEMENT?

It's what I feel LW. I've made it clear. If you don't like it.....oh well.