The controversy following revelations that U.S. intelligence agencies have monitored suspected terrorist related communications since 9/11 reflects a severe case of selective amnesia by the New York Times and other media opponents of President Bush. They certainly didn’t show the same outrage when a much more invasive and indiscriminate domestic surveillance program came to light during the Clinton administration in the 1990’s. At that time, the Times called the surveillance "a necessity."

"If you made a phone call today or sent an e-mail to a friend, there’s a good chance what you said or wrote was captured and screened by the country’s largest intelligence agency." (Steve Kroft, CBS’ 60 Minutes)

Those words were aired on February 27, 2000 to describe the National Security Agency and an electronic surveillance program called Echelon whose mission, according to Kroft,

"is to eavesdrop on enemies of the state: foreign countries, terrorist groups and drug cartels. But in the process, Echelon’s computers capture virtually every electronic conversation around the world."


Link


Comments (Page 2)
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on Jan 12, 2006

Where was the "outrage" from the NYT's back then

I didn't change the issue. What issue? Isn't a good portion of that article related to Echelon? .

Do you want to read the top line?  Or are you capable of it?  Now dont play stupid with me.  It wont work.

on Jan 12, 2006

Oh, the outrage thing and why they weren't outraged about Echelon. Well, it's possible they weren't outraged because Echelon went through the proper legal channels.

Now you are just arguing with yourself and using circular logic.  You say you read the linked article, yet with your continued denial of its contents it is apparent you did not, even when parts are highlighted for you here.

Ok, I give up.  You are not playing stupid.  But you are wrong again.

on Jan 12, 2006
No, you did! I was responding to you, and your lame attempt to take this to a topic you had any hope of winning.


That's the part you don't seem to grasp about me at all. I'm not interested in "winning" anything here. I'm just about people being honest and reporting things that are true, as opposed to telling only a portion of the story, or gross distortions of the facts.
on Jan 12, 2006

I'm just about people being honest

You are a comedian too.

on Jan 12, 2006
And you are a........ ehhhh nevermind.

on Jan 12, 2006

Can you show proof of this? Because all I get off the internet about it is blog sites and they ain't proof of squat.


Link


Well if your all about truth and the reporting of it....please refer to your link and "show" me where it says that Echelon went through the FISA court? I read it 2 times and could find no references about that. All it states is that Echelon didn't go around collecting info on US citizens unless they were an agent for a foriegn power. Which we already know for a fact that that's a lie.


The secret is out. Two powerful intelligence gathering tools that the United States created to eavesdrop on Soviet leaders and to track KGB spies are now being used to monitor Americans. One system, known as Echelon, intercepts and analyzes telephone calls, faxes and e-mail sent to and from the United States. The other system, Tempest, can secretly read the displays on personal computers, cash registers and automatic teller machines, from as far as a half mile away. Although the inner workings of both systems remain classified, fueling exaggerated claims about their capabilities on Internet sites, credible detail has at last begun to emerge. It comes chiefly from foreign governments that began investigating American surveillance activities after discovering that the Echelon system had been used to spy on their defense contractors. From those documents it is possible to obtain the first accurate view of the threats high-tech spying poses to our right to privacy. We think you will agree it also creates a real and present threat to our freedom.


Link
on Jan 12, 2006
Well if your all about truth and the reporting of it....please refer to your link and "show" me where it says that Echelon went through the FISA court? I read it 2 times and could find no references about that.


We do not collect against US persons unless they are agents of a foreign power, as that term is defined in law. We do not target their conversations for collection in the United States unless a FISA [Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act] warrant has been obtained from the FISA court by the Justice Department. And we do not target their conversations for collection overseas unless Executive Order 12333 has been followed and the Attorney General has personally approved collection.
on Jan 12, 2006
So apparently, to the NYT and our own Davadedalus, it is ok to abuse electronic surveilance assets, as long as it is political opponents who are targeted but not wartime enemies.

Yeah, ok... makes sense to me.
on Jan 12, 2006

Yeah, ok... makes sense to me.

You turning into a Liberal?

on Jan 14, 2006
I read it 2 times and could find no references about that.


Did you find it yet drmiler?
on Jan 14, 2006
You turning into a Liberal?


Glad you caught the "Subtle" humor. ;~D
on Jan 14, 2006
I read it 2 times and could find no references about that.


Did you find it yet drmiler?


Yeah I found it. So we're supposed to take his word as gospel when he has been shown to have a proclivity to stretch the truth?
on Jan 14, 2006
Yeah I found it. So we're supposed to take his word as gospel when he has been shown to have a proclivity to stretch the truth?


Well, if you could show any evidence to the contrary I'd be more than happy to take a look. It might take me 3 times reading it to comprehend it, but I'll give it a shot.

Don't you find it rather curious that not one government official blew the whistle on Clinton for this doing searches and surveillance with no warrants as opposed to the reported 10-13 that blew the whistle on the current program? Don't you find it rather curious that no FISA judges resigned in protest?

I'll be waiting patiently for that "evidence".

good luck!


on Jan 15, 2006
"Good Luck, YOU'll NEED IT!" - Smash TV
on Jan 15, 2006
Is this all about Clinton-bashing or NY Times and "Davadedalus"-bashing? I find it noble that both sides are attempting to arrive at truth; however, when it comes to surveillance, shrouded in secrecy, it would better serve your time to forget about it, and admit "evidence" is preconditioned by partisanship, hopefully not nasty bias.
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