Iraq was 2 years later.  Emotions still high then?  Bush did not lie about WMDs.  The intel was bad, but that was due to Saddam hiding the fact he had gotten rid of them from the Iranians (who he feared more than Bush).  And WMDs were but one of a litany of reasons given for finishing the war in Iraq (there was never a peace treaty from 91).  Again, Lie is a strong word.  You have to prove he KNEW the British and American Intel was wrong.  Your opinion does not count, except to bolster your argument that Bush was wrong, not that he lied.

Putting all of what on Obama?  The 4 trillion he has run up since becoming president?  That is his responsibility.  Bush was responsible for his own mess, but no one is saying that is Obama's fault.  Blame for Obamacare (which has nothing to do with care, but with insurance)?  Obama broke several promises to get that passed, and it is a bad bill (bad laws are worse than no laws).  Blamed Obama for "Fast and Furious"?  The program was ill conceived and badly executed, but since democrats have a solid lock on government, no one told Obama that - this one is going to cause a lot of sorrow in the White house.  Blame Obama for $800 billion stimulus that accomplished nothing?  That was all his bill (and also why his first budget deficit exceeded $1 trillion).  Blame Obama for one of the largest tax increases in history (you just have not seen most of it yet)?  Again, he lied.  The tax will affect everyone regardless of income.

So where are we falsely accusing obama of things he did not do?  Obama did inherit a bad economy and 2 wars - but the former he and the democrats helped to create with their insistence and laws that forced banks to make loans to people with no hope of repaying them (and yes, the banks were complicit - they could have refused to do so - and then been blackballed by the government). 

Eventually, you have to stop excusing the man.  No, he did not crucify Jesus (Bush did that), or start WWII (Bush did that too), or even cause the great flood (Bush again).  But he has a resume that shames even Carter.  And Bush did not do that.

sorry, forget this response.

 I thought this was about the budget crisis and I'm even sorry that I posted anything here. I have watched the postings here on the JoeUser blog and have noted those who attack anyone who disagrees with them of which you are one.

This is no way to have a real debate with you. You refuse to take responsibility for the actions of your party except as they suit you. I am unable to delve into the current administrations mistakes when we cannot even somewhat agree on how we got here.

No, Obama and his administration is not perfect and have made mistakes but I consider him a straight shooter with the interests of the American people in his heart and mind. I also think he will win in 2012 and that the republicans are shooting themselves in the foot with their no'ism attitudes.

Raise the debt ceiling, let the Bush tax cuts expire and cut the pork.

If you are directing your response to me, I am not a republican.   I have never been one, so I cannot take responsibility for that which I have no stake in.  As for Attacking you, perhaps I missed the attacks, but I did not see any.  I see plenty of disagreement.  I see plenty of discussion.  But I do not see any ad hominems or belittling.  If you can point out where i am guilty, I will apologize as that is not my intention.  However, I cannot apologize for others if they have done it.

I do not agree at all with the constant raising of the debt. The grave is dug, why dig deeper? I like the one analogy of arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic after it has already struck the iceberg.

While I see DrGuy not agree on points many times, I don't agree with "attack". To have a conversation with all that agree with a point of view accomplishes nothing. The only way to learn and grow is to debate with people you do not agree with.

IMHO, it is also fairly useless to finger point at the 2 different parties. I would rather see different views and debate on what to do about the problem at hand.

Do not raise the debt, stop all the wars that are not wars LOL, close all the loopholes for the wealthy and corporations at least until the debt is paid. If the rich want their tax cuts back let them use all their lobby power to reduce the size of government and make sure there is a balanced budget. My 2 cents.

The corpse is getting fatter and more bloated.

Heh, nothing like manipulating those who are ignorant of how fractional reserve banking works. These numbers might also be more frightening if the value of a dollar was not run into the ground.

Regardless, if you wanted to see how the neo-cons in charge of the Republican party talk the talk of the old conservatives, but do not walk the walk, here are the real numbers that matter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms

So yep, Vodoo Reganomics and Laffer Curve Theory (failed spend and borrow stimulus theory), and 2 unpaid for wars.

The country was well on its way to a meltdown long before Obama came around (admittedly he isn't helping any)

You are confused.  The country was not on the right road, but it was not on its way to meltdown until Obama.  Numbers do not lie.  Even Clinton had more sense and intelligence, and when he saw the writing on the wall, he moderated, he did not double down on stupid as Obama has.

GMC2 posts:

DRG posts:

Gmc2 posts:

Gmc2,

Instead of picking up your bat and ball and leaving why don't you do your homework and check out the simple facts.

DrG. is correct. What Obama inherited was Bush's 413 billion dollar Deficit that was 3.5 percent of the gross domestic product (GDP). According to the NYTimes,  this "enormous" deficit was very bad and was condemned  as "unprecedented" and the biggest budget deficit in the history of the world" that will cause "a collapse of confidence" in the financial markets unless Bush got America's "financial house in order".

Well, fast forward to 2011 and note how the NYTimes tune changes ....Obama's 1.5 Trillion dollar deficit and 10 percent of the GDP is "good". Columnist Paul Krugman's in his column titled, "Fiscal Scare Tactics" said, "running big deficits in the face of the worst economic slump since the 1930's is actually the right thing to do".... 

When Obama took over the helm, Oil was 39 dollars a barrel and a gallon of gas was $1.84. The Unemployment rate was 7 something and we had a AAA rating. Not anymore.  Is Obama to blame? Yes, he owns this crisis. And while you are doing your homework, why don't you tell us what Obama's specific economic plan is to get us out of this mess? Oh wait a minute...don't waste your time, he doesn't have one.

Do some homework.

Two years in office and Obama is intent on "change"... that is, taking America in a new Socialist direction. We see that in the way he set up Obamacare where the public option was a first step in getting socialist single payer system into law. His policies are setting the stage for redistributive welfare spending. His rhetoric is laced with class conflict...his strategy is to turn the non-producers against the producers.

Obama's regime had a super majority and wants to continue feasting on taxpayers' money. They are addicted to over spending and over borrowing to the point it's imploded from its own greed and damaged our creditworthiness and caused a crisis of confidence. For example in Nov. 2010, the government spent 150.4 billion more than it took in. For the first 2 months of FY 2011, which began October 1, the feds spent 585.7 billion and took in 294.9 billion, a deficit for just one sixth of the fiscal year of 290.8 billion.

To keep the voters happy and the entitlement programs going, Obama's government made promises it couldn't afford shifting the burden onto future generations.

Do some homework.

Do you think it's right for Congressmen to pass a bill into law when they haven't even read it?

Well that's what happened. In March, 2010 the Democrats had a super majority and they passed the infamous Socialistic legislation (Obamacare) into law without first reading it.

So what does that tell you?

It tells me the debate over health care wasn't about true reform in a way compatible with our Constitution and free society, but rather it was about throwing out our free market economic model for a social welfare government run one.

Well, now, all 2300 pages of  Obamacare have been read and the public knows it is filled with federal government intrusions into the private sector that can only have dire consequences and a disastrous impact on the personal freedom of the American people. 

The main problem with it is that the Constitution limits what the federal government can do and forcing us to purchase policies is unConstitutional. 

Then there is the mandatory funding of abortion, the rationing of health care, removing the rights of doctors and patients to exercise freedom  of conscience, taking away decision making from doctors, patients and families, denying care to those over 65, and putting an overwhelming financial burden on young people and so on..and so forth....