Frankly as a US citizen and a veteran I'm disgusted. It's amazing how some here freely express their claim to their rights as a citizen, yet shed the slightest feeling of obligation to any symbolisms of tradition of their national identity. If you want respect from your country, start by showing a little. What horse shit "patriotism" is on display here. The only "twisting" going on is the incorrect association of politics and patriotism. This is supposed to transcend politics. Maybe when some members grow the hell up, they'll have a better appreciation of its real meaning. Pity most immigrants are more patriotic than the snot nosed kids (and a growing number of adults) that never did a damn thing for their country except bitch and moan. Too many will gladly take their turn at the teat as long as they have to do nothing in return.
I'll bet they would've rose for the Soviet National Anthem or the Day O Banana song.
So be it, that's your right and perogative. My obligation, however, is to the people that make the country. My friends, family, neigbors, etc.
What's funny is you fail to see that my esteem and respect for our country is why I have such an issue. Sorry, but you come across just as blind as many others.
The problem is it doesn't nitro. Tell me Nitro, are our principles...are what our nation was founded on truly being excersized and given? No. Our principles are violated and usurped constantly, by the very people that enjoy it.
You know...the funny thing is I do something for my country. Yeah, I can't join the military, but I still volunteer, etc.
But sure, lets all ad hominim. But you know,whatever. If you want to claim that I'm being unpatriotic, or seditious...then fine. To each their own and our principles included.
Oh sure, yeah...All hail the soviet union! (Fyi --> \sarcasm)
Be well, ~Alderic
I served with people of many different political ideologies (and other significant differences), a national respect is one thing we all shared. A person doesn't have to serve to be respectful or patriotic. It's as basic as calling someone ma'am, sir, mr. or mrs. Personally, it's an acknowledgment that everyone has a right to believe what they want, because its for us all.Saying the pledge doesn't make a person patriotic, nor does not saying it, you have to believe it;s what we should strive to be,
Obligation or agenda? You don't believe in "liberty and justice for all"? It doesn't say Republican or Democrat, black or white, queer or straight. Make your political statements, but don't expect to be taken seriously by me. Now I know you won't lose sleep over that. As long as your taking care of your little group. Here's a flash for you this is a nation. Next time you wonder why things aren't just the way you'd like them to be, take a hard long look in the mirror.
Pray tell, who (in America) doesn't, or can't?
This is what I don't understand. We're forced to be so PC that we can't even have national traditions because it might offend someone. I'm sorry, but I respect what our forefathers gave us the basic rights to do, and I would die to fight for liberty. It's just sad that we are starting to have to fight our own government for those liberties.
Ha, finally got home, and could see the video.
"When one tried to participate, he was pulled down."
See, that is bullshit, in my opinion. That man wanted to respect his country, (his choice and right,) but his fellow... moronic... party members prohibited him from doing such.
What the hell has our country come to?
That makes my blood boil.
So pc and polarized we can't even respect our own country.
When will people wake up and realize that our entire government needs an overhaul? No more politicians.
Marriage is borh an implied and legal liberty. Heterosexuals can marry who they want. Guess who doesn't have the right to marry.
Dude, you're not listening.
1. My obligation Nitro.
2. Who the hell do you think I'm representing? Are you seriously that thick that you thinking I'm trying to take care of my little group? For the love of God man, get a grip. I don't give a flying fuck what the Dems or Reps say; they can all jump of a bridge. For the record, I'm not affiliated with either. In fact, I'm a friggin' libertarian. You know what is funny, is that you say it isn't about the politics, but YOU are the one that is inserting the politics.
My obligation is to our principles, which include: Freedom, libterty, the pursuit of happiness, etc.
Fyi, the next time you need someone to fight for your rights...no matter if they're *assumes deep booming voice* "patriotic" or not...guess what, I'll probably take up the charge boy-o.
That is the basis of my point. For me, I BELIEVE in our principles, and that extends to when someone is claimed as being unpatriotic.
Dying to fight for living might be counter productive. I've never seen any zombies fighting for liberty. I also agree, it is sad that we have to. (Huh, I must be unpatriotic)
You know what's funny...policical correctness isn't a one way street Jade. We're being PC when we say people have to do XYZ to be patriotic, etc. I'm curious though if they were doing a protest. I've heard of "sit downs" being staged. (I guess protests/boycotts and tea parties are all unpatriotic too though...\sarcasm) I am disappointed the guy wasn't allowed to do that, but...such is politics - geesh.
You're an asshole.
Freedom should include the freedom to not pledge allegiance if you don't feel like it.
It's a start.
It looks to me like the Democrats refused only because the Republicans initiated it. I think it was a protest against the Republicans, not against the pledge.
Jeez. Thick people.
Um, no. I haven't said, or anyway implied that you have to do something to be patriotic. Just that the pledge can be very powerful when used correctly, and that it is an American tradition that shouldn't be laid by wayside just because it offends someone.
Also, didn't say only "so and so" was being PC, I said we have ALL become extremely PC.
No one can do anything because it might offend someone, and *who would ever be able to handle that...*.
As for the gay marriage, yes, they have the right to marry, just not the right to marry the same gender. That is an issue that is being worked and debated on. Just as women being able to vote, and slavery. It's a process that isn't just going to happen overnight.
Thus "pursuit."
Jade, seriously..you're smart.
Heterosexuals = love the opposite sex. Guess what, they can marry who they want.
Homosexuals = love the same sex. Guess what, they cannot marry who they want.
So...given that when you marry, you marry the person you want...logically - then that means that gays cannot marry who they want. The whole deal about them "having the right to marry" (only if it is the opposites sex)...is a bullshit excuse and one that is completely foolish.
Your analogy does not even pertain to the topic, but since your a gay supporter, here's one for you:
Homosexuals = beat up a straight person, it's assault.
Heterosexuals = beat up a gay person, it's assault and a hate crime.
The pledge of allegiance is a affirmation of principle, and a lofty one, but not any one particular political idea. The people that call themselves citizens and refuse to say it for whatever reason, are totally ignorant of what it means. Perhaps these folks would be happier somewhere else in the world were words like "liberty" and "justice" won't offend their sensitive ears.
1. That's an unfortunate thing. If the evidence shows that the people beat the gay/lesbian people because of what they are - then yes that is a hate crime. However, if they just assaulted them, and didn't do it because they're gay - then that's assault. It goes either way.
2. I disaqree nitro; you are showing your ignorance and intolerance of those who do not wish to say it for moral/personal reasons. That doesn't mean they don't affirm the principle however.
I still stand by my point, if someone is going to force people to say it - then that is wrong. It's going against the very principles, in my opinion.
~Thomas Jefferson
Ole TJ was a pretty bright guy. He saw right away that after all the tribulations they had gone to to make the country a reality, people become complacent and start to slip into the same holes as the leaders they revolted against. He saw that change would never stop and that resistance to change causes great friction.
I've been all over most of the western world/europe/africa, and I can say, I'm a pretty big fan of this country. I put my money where my mouth is and spent the last 18 years in the military. And I see nothing at all wrong with revising the pledge to more accurately represent the WHOLE of the people that live in the US. Right now, it does not do that.
In the Navy, valuing differences as strengths is something we get evaluated on. But people that resist change don't see differences as strengths - they see them as threats.
Now, on the other side of this...if you sign on to public office, not standing to say the pledge is a churlish childish way to make a point.
I do agree that children should not be made to say it in school. That's just brain washing. I was saying the damn thing in kindergarten and didn't have the first clue what any of it meant.